As many people know, version 2.1 (or is it 3.0?) will be a boy. Sarah and I had always planned on having 2 children, and its just an easier decision now that we’ve collected the whole set. The downside to having a boy is that we have to have a discussion that we were able to avoid the first time around: circumcision.
While I may be cut, that doesn’t mean its the right choice for my child. Sarah, being a female, really hadn’t given it much thought until recently. While no decision has been made, I think we’re starting in opposite camps. Or at least slightly divergent camps. I’m strictly on the fence, but leaning on the side of "being intact." Sarah is leaning in the opposite direction, but she’ll fully admit its due to conformity and aesthetics.
As part of our reexamination of the issue, we had Netflix send us Penn & Teller: Bullshit season 3 disc 1. This was their episode on circumcision. We had watched it when it first aired on Showtime, but it was time for a refresher. It was fairly grueling to watch, and just based on the pain of the child, its a fairly compelling argument against. Sadly, some of the "intactivists" they show don’t help the cause much. Some of their arguments and presentation were fairly "out there" so it weakened the case a bit. However, those who were for circumcision didn’t have their case bolstered by the fact that in the United States circumcision became popular thanks to efforts by Kellogg and Graham as a way to keep those pesky kids from masturbating and keep their devotion to God. 1) It doesn’t really slow guys down (I’ve verified this) and 2) the cereal guy and the sweet cracker guy? Give me a break. Anyway, even after watching, Sarah was still on the side she started with, but it gave us a few more places to check out.
One of the items that P&T mentioned was the American Academy Of Pediatrics: Circumcision Policy Statement which I intend to read in the next few days. I also, on my own, looked up the wikipedia article on circumcision. Also, in trying to find some links for this post, I found this recent article in the Charlotte Observer.
In what I’ve read so far, I’m still on the fence. It doesn’t seem medically necessary, despite recent reports on the reduction in HIV transmission in Africa. Something doesn’t sit right with me on those reports, especially given the reported rampant nature of unprotected sex there. I would hope that I would raise my child right and he would practice safe sex at all times.
Anyway, one final thought from the Abstract of the America Academy of Pediatrics (also referenced in P&T:BS):
Existing scientific evidence demonstrates potential medical benefits of newborn male circumcision; however, these data are not sufficient to recommend routine neonatal circumcision. In circumstances in which there are potential benefits and risks, yet the procedure is not essential to the child’s current well-being, parents should determine what is in the best interest of the child. To make an informed choice, parents of all male infants should be given accurate and unbiased information and be provided the opportunity to discuss this decision. If a decision for circumcision is made, procedural analgesia should be provided.
Anyway, dear lazy web, what say you on the removal of foreskin?
[Update 1/17: For various reasons, most of them having to do with travel, I missed an article in the Chicago Tribune on this topic: Circumcision Circumspection. (Actually, this is the same article I pointed to above from the Charlotte Observer. I guess I didn’t realize it was from a local origin.) However, I caught a pro-circumcision letter to the editor that was in this mornings paper.]
I lean toward uncut myself. I figure if your boy is ever going to change his mind about the choice you make this year, and wants to "correct" things, its easier to lose it than to . . .
. . . for the sake of completeness, you could read up on foreskin restoration techniques. The surgery sounds like a bad idea but apparently folks have made some progress with steady application of tapes and weights.
I don’t know what I am missing, and while I’m not upset about the Johnson I Have, were I to have my life all over again, I like to think I’d give the foreskin a shot.
I agree with Sarah regarding aesthetics . . . like Elaine on Seinfeld said, the circumcised penises have more "personality" . . . but then, who knows what will be regarded as fashionable when your boy finds himself trying to get laid a few decades from now? As for "conformity" — pshaw! I like to think the future will be a more liberal place, but I don’t want to ever feel pressure to "conform" as to the shape of my penis . . .
. . . as for the shape of my penis, that’s my cue to close. 🙂
-danny
Man, its gonna hella rule when your son looks back on his life and finds this debate over the shape of things to have come . . . 😀
I think it’s hilarious that if they do it to girls, it’s grounds for political asylum in this country, but we do it to 75% of boys. My general rule of thumb is that, if it’s so unhealthy, why did evolution leave us with the thingy on our thingy?
Rebecca and I, as you might gather, went uncut with our son. (I am too, but of course YOU ALREADY KNEW THAT!@)
We went with the cut for our boy, but it was done kind of more for conformity and "what we know" type of thing. I have to say that he didn’t cry until he had that done. Kind of a sudden "wtf!?" from him :(. Isn’t there extra upkeep when you have the full deal intact? I wouldn’t want to come off looking like I didn’t know how to handle the equipment when I own a set of my own. He can always impersonate a jew if he has to, also :).
The sensible default is to never perform a medical procedure (especially an irreversible one) unless there is a problem you are trying to solve.
So what problem are you trying to solve? "My baby’s weenie looks bad"? Surely your son should be able to decide that in the future for himself? "75% of boys have it done and I don’t want to be different"? 25% isn’t a very small minority. There aren’t 25% Chinese people in the U.S. but we still let those yeller folk have kids!
There’s an extra two seconds of pulling back the collar and washing out underneath. That whole area needs soap and hot water on a regular basis, I wouldn’t call it especially burdensome.
Mark: The "extra upkeep" simply ammounts to pulling the foreskin back and cleaning. Not very difficult. It adds a negligable ammount of time to my shower.
Keith: There are a bunch of sensory nerves in the foreskin. Nature put them there for a reason. I’ve read somewhere that the foreskin is in the same ballpark as your finger tips as far as sensativity to touch goes. Why would you cut that off?
When this topic comes up, I’ve sometimes likened the foreskin to the female labia. They come in all sizes and shapes… and you have to do some work to clean them well… but that’s no excuse to cut them off.
i say it’s unecessary surgery. and one gone bad cannot be undone. why chance it.
Dbt, the only thing similar between male and female circumcision is the name.
If you choose against, be prepared for the inevitable "Daddy, why doesn’t mine look like yours?"
I have a suspicion that neonatal circumcision causes far less sensitivity loss than adult circumcision but no corresponding data. If true, this would imply "let your son decide when he gets older" isn’t without cost.
Personally, I lean pro-circumcision, but my reasons may be unconvincing. However, don’t let the anti folks give you a hard time if you go ‘cut’.
Oh, and as to the "nature put it there for a reason" arguments — yes, that’s a sensible default position to have, but don’t forget the appendix (now useless) and the tonsils (may be removed without virtually any consequences).
My only direct experience is 2 family members (1 close, 1 not) who aren’t cut. Both of them, plus both wives, wish they were.
Tonsils aren’t just removed without consequences; you’re often better off without them.
And hey,. some engineer in the north burbs is making it reversible. heh.
What reasons do they give for wishing they were snipped?
Comparing the foreskin to the appendix or tonsils is totally bogus. AFAIK, nobody is known to get sexual pleasure (or indeed, sensation of any kind other than pain) from their appendices or tonsils. The foreskin is hardly "vestigial" in that sense. In addition, I’ve never heard of anybody dying from an infected foreskin. Have you heard differently?
In any case, I don’t think many would advocate pre-emptive surgical removal of appendix and tonsils from a newborn. Why should the foreskin, which presents no future mortal threat, but instead arguably increases future pleasure, be a greater target?
The point wasn’t to equivocate the foreskin with the tonsils or appendix, but to illustrate that the argument "evolution put it there for a reason" is, by itself, insufficient.
My pro-circumcision beliefs are not based on any ‘mortal threat’ that the foreskin poses — clearly, it doesn’t. I suspect I merely assign different weights to the benefits (primarily social acceptance, fitting in, you know — bullshit) and the costs (I have no sensitivity complaints, but it’s not like I would know otherwise).
dbt: It was a preference for all parties. There are no health issues involved.
Other than the jewish factor, I can’t possibly imagine what kind of social acceptance difference there is between being snipped and un. Even in the most petty of junior high locker rooms, did you know anybody who checked foreskin length?
I suppose you could equate "what woman prefer" with social acceptance. So call up all your conversations with ex girlfriends. Heh.
Or, worst case, this URL gets texted to Evan’s friends in 7th or 8th grade.
Of course, now you realize that everyone will want to see your boy’s penis. "So, what did you end up deciding? Lemme see how it turned out."
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/circumcision/
Steve: You can’t really compare a patch of skin that happens to have a large concentration of sensory nerve cells to a vestigial organ like the appendix. There are only a few other similar concentrations of sensory nerve cells, in places like your finger tips and lips.
This topic came up between Michele and myself. She commented that her father was uncut and said emphatically that it sucked.
Why I don’t know. *shrug*
Yeah, that’ll be a fun conversation. "Goddammit, Dad, is there ANYTHING you didn’t blog about? Even my DICK, for God’s sake?"
Which of course, you’ll probably then blog about. 🙂
As for impersonating a Jew, it’s also imperonating a Muslim, which could get you shot in the wrong parts of Serbia for a while.
Personally, I don’t remember the experience. But I’ve read a couple of accounts online about guys that had it done later in life, and in both cases it was Not Pleasant™. For me, that’s enough to favor it. As always, YMMV.
Snip it. I’ve known two men who went to have it removed later in life, neither regretted it. One even said sex was more enjoyable afterwards.
My parents had wanted me done, and the doctor refused. I have been thankful for this my entire life.
For men who doubt they’ve lost sensitivity by being cut, I can only say that I did a test whereby I had my foreskin retracted for a week and in that time, the sensitivity was lessened exponentially. I can only compare it to what your gums would feel like if you didn’t have lips … and your gums were sex organs.
The aesthetic argument appals me, to be honest. Will you send your kid to get their nose done, if that’s “ugly�
Anyway, that’s my two cents.